Josh Knotts - Entertainers, Helpful or "The Help"?

0:04   Are you using your entertainment correctly?

0:07   Are you treating your entertainment like a guest or the help? Let's talk about it.

0:12   This is the Fairgrounds podcast with top [music] experts and innovators, the men and women who shape the future of US fairs and Canadian ag societies. Brought

0:21   to [music] you by Pilot Rock, leader in benches, picnic tables, and just about everything outdoors. Here's your host, Jay Spicer.

0:30   All right, today we welcome Josh Knotts from Extreme Illusions and Escapes to talk about entertainment at your fairgrounds.

0:37   Josh, where are you right now?

0:40   I am at Wayne Regional Agricultural Fair in beautiful Goldsboro, North Carolina.

0:47   North Kakalaki. So, he's on the road working like a charm, like a true professional. So, um, Josh, I want to

0:55   talk to you today about how the entertainment business and the fair boards interact during the fairs because sometimes it's great, sometimes not so

1:03   great. So, I want to start with uh your experience. What was it that first got you interested in performing at county

1:10   fairs and what do you do enjoy most about performing at a fair crowd?

1:16   Yeah, so I was trying to figure out, of course, how to make a uh career in magic happen. I was in college at uh West

1:24   Virginia University in Morgantown, West Virginia. And uh there was a festival that that was happening in uh Fairmont, West Virginia, and they hired me to come

1:33   in. And they were telling me that they had hired a gentleman that came all the way from Syracuse, New York to do the show the year the year before. And I

1:41   said, "Well, how'd you find somebody all the way from Syracuse, New York? I I live right here. Like, what would make you get somebody from there?"

1:50   Oh, well, we f found them at the annual uh festival and fair convention. Oh, tell me more about this convention. And

1:58   so, it was the West Virginia uh Association of Affairs and Festivals. They were talking about, WVAFF.

2:04   Uh that that was the first time I'd ever heard of that. Light bulbs click on. I go, "Ah." So, I start doing my research and finding out that every single state has one of these associations.

2:14   Mhm. So by November the next year, my very first convention I went to was the Maryland Agricultural Association

2:22   Affairs and Shows U Maths, which is in November. It's kind of one of the earlier ones. Yeah. My hometown one.

2:29   Yeah. That's how I that's how I got into this industry. Uh one of the first people I met in this uh industry was Marty from the Montgomery County Fair.

2:38   I was brand new and he came by and we had a nice conversation and he kind of was one of the first people. Now, of course, he didn't hire me that year, but

2:47   he was very kind and it was my first introduction to how we do this whole fair and festival uh convention and get the gigs.

2:53   Sure. Marty's great, man. That's my hometown fair actually where he's from.

2:58   So, uh it's a great fair and of I worked at fair many times now. Uh but back then, he was really one of the first people that I ever met met in the industry.

3:08   Many years later was when I uh I I worked for him. Uh, you know, the first year I did that convention, I did the

3:16   West Virginia one, I did the Pennsylvania one. You'll love this. I wasn't even 21 yet. And at the Hershey

3:24   Lodge, I had to have my mom go with me so that I had somebody of age to get the room. They wouldn't let you have a hotel room at 21 at the Hershey Lodge.

3:32   So, here here I am. My mom went, brand new, young guy in the industry. My

3:39   mom wins the 5050 drawing that night when I was showcasing on stage. Are you kidding me? The m the the young magician guys mom just won $900 and some dollars.

3:51   [laughter]

3:52   Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. Fairs are um a pleasure to be around. It's always happy. It's a it's an atmosphere

4:02   where people can come together with their families and feel good about it.

4:06   and everything seems to be going great at a fair, but behind the scenes, not everything's always great. So, you work with a lot of different fairs out there.

4:16   What makes the relationship between the entertainer like yourself and a fair board work really well?

4:23   So, those success stories.

4:25   Yeah, I've gained confidence myself over the years. Of course, I I still always, you know, when I come in, I'm that

4:32   respectful employee just wanting to do whatever I can to make your event a success. I still treat that the same way.

4:39   Um, it does help that we're part of associations.

4:43   Um what I feel like has happened for me is that as I've gained confidence over the years um as a performer coming in to

4:51   do this situation, it's uh it's helped me to have the confidence now that when I'm coming into the the fair situation

5:00   that you know it's more of a I'm working for you, but also I have my product that I'm trying to represent

5:08   where I didn't really treat it that way at first. At first it was I need the money, I need the gigs. Now it's all about

5:16   extreme illusions and escapes. This is like my dynasty one day. So when I come to a fair, I hope that they realize that

5:25   what I'm doing. I'm really happy to be part of your event, but I'm trying to make sure that I'm doing the best for

5:31   what I am trying to present. And I'm glad that you let it fit into your scenario. And I'm never going to drop the ball because I want extreme

5:40   illusions and escapes, which is what I love. Uh I want it to shine. So you're really allowing me as a fair to kind of

5:47   insert my dream, my show into your like part of the puzzle. Um I didn't look at

5:55   it like that at first. I I acted more like the help.

5:59   Now, over time, I've learned that whole thing to I'm trying to fit my piece into the puzzle to be the solution to their

6:07   what am I going to do for entertainment problem.

6:10   So, I look at it kind of differently now. Um, man, if you could have talked to Josh Knotts 25 years ago when I first started,

6:19   so nervous, so afraid to get the no. Now I realize I sit there at the trade show and I get I get 50 nos, but it'll give

6:29   me the 20 to 25 yeses that I need to fill my calendar. Sure.

6:35   So, can you give me an example of a a positive experience you had when you

6:42   went to a fair and board members did something for you to make you feel appreciated or whatever? Just like what do you like as an entertainer when you

6:50   show up at a fairgrounds? This is a great example here. Uh Eddie Pitzer. Uh the first time I worked at the Wayne Regional Fairgrounds, it was Milton

6:59   Ingram who ran the fair for like 30 years. It was his last year. He was retiring and Eddie was going to be taking over.

7:06   So I got to be here um his last year, Milton's last year. And then of course the following year they they booked me back and I got to be here under Eddie Piter's uh first year. I'm welcome now.

7:17   Open arms. I come into the office, it smiles. you feel like they want you there. Uh, also I let them feel like

7:25   they can lean on me. Just this morning, I was up at 7:30 in the this morning doing radio spots on behalf of the fair.

7:33   Uh, Eddie's done it for years. He does a great job doing it, but he thought what would be more interesting is to have maybe our illusionist go in and and have

7:41   him do the radio and do the the marketing. Uh, they they feel like they can ask me to do these things at this

7:48   point in my career. I I I like that kind of um relationship where they let me feel like I'm part of the fair and not

7:56   just working at the fair. I love this industry. I see a different way to do it every single week when I'm at a different fair. When I come in and you

8:06   allow me to feel like my my opinion, my ideas, that my voice actually matters and that I'm not just there's your

8:13   stage, do your shows. I'm willing to do whatever I can to make it a success.

8:18   here. They do that. They literally roll out the red carpet to me when I come in.

8:22   They make me feel welcome. Uh they ask me my opinion. What do you see work?

8:27   What doesn't work? I mean, this will be this like my 17th fair since January this year. I've seen a lot and I'm happy to help share.

8:40   Sure. So, it sounds like a uh a friendly group there, but friendly doesn't always convey just because they're nice people

8:48   or friendly people. On the flip side of that, what are some of the things affairs sometimes do without realizing it sometimes that makes entertainers

8:57   feel uncomfortable or unwelcome? Cuz I know I've I've spoken with guys like you and they'll tell me that they show up at the fair office on check-in day.

9:06   Somebody points to a spot in the dirt where they're supposed to set up. They do their thing. Not a soul from the board ever stopped by to check in on

9:15   them, say hello. The next time they see anybody from the fair is when they go to the office to pick up their check and they feel like, "What am I doing here?"

9:23   Yeah, that's cra It's always crazy to me. I'm in that scenario a couple times a year. Um I'm going to be honest. I at

9:29   this point don't need to work at your fair. So when I feel like you don't want me there, I don't want to be anywhere

9:37   I'm not wanted. I I will make sure next year that I'm busy during your fair. I will not be available. Um because I I

9:44   really I don't need to I'm not here for the paycheck at this point. Listen, I'm away from my wife and my kids for, you

9:51   know, 48 49 weeks a year. I want to make sure that you want what I do for a living. Um, when I when I walk onto a

10:00   fair grounds and uh you you you want me to just jump through the hoop like a dog. Um, I'll play that part for the

10:09   week. I'll keep my mouth shut. I really want to develop a relationship with you.

10:14   Have I been through that situation? Uh, this year I've got a great mix. I Every single fair I've been at is a fair that

10:21   I have been treated well. Last year there was a few that I'm made sure I'm not at this year.

10:27   Um, but does it happen? It does happen. And um, I guess that's just a relation.

10:32   You know what happens sometimes is that it's new fair boards. Maybe new people are in charge. And I feel like they're

10:41   trying to kind of get their own ducks in the row. They don't have the confidence themselves. And that's why they kind of treat you like that. You're paying me

10:49   good money. I hope that you and your fair board comes by and sees what I do.

10:53   I want you to watch my show. I want you to see uh the reactions of the people in the audience cuz as far as I'm

11:00   concerned, most of the entertainment that you have your fairgrounds when you pay to get in your gate, we're the value. We're providing the value.

11:09   Everything else costs more money. Most of the time, you've got to buy a wristband to ride the rides. You've got to pay more money for the food. It's the

11:17   a kids in the barns. It's the petting zoos. It's the shows that you provide that are allowing you to have value in

11:25   that ticket price. So, if you want to have a 10 or a $15 gate, you better have 10 or $15 uh worth of gate uh value set

11:34   up in your shows and what you're giving to the people when they come in the fair.

11:38   That's right. That's a that's a whole discussion. We're going to dive into that second, but I wanted to go back to something you kind of you just walked into was you don't need to work there.

11:48   There seems to be sometimes at boards an attitude that what's the struggle? Who needs more more? Does that make sense?

11:56   Like you need them more than they need you. And they think that they can just push you over.

12:02   I've heard the magic acts are a dime a dozen. I've heard it. I heard it a lot more the first 10 years of my career,

12:10   like when I was young. And you know, maybe it was like trying to take advantage of a a younger man, you know, right out of college who's just trying to navigate and figure out this

12:18   industry. So, I have to blame a lot of myself because I allow that to happen. I will be honest. Now, I do have people that try and kick me around. Um, what

12:27   you don't know, Jay, is sometimes under those loud colored suits I wear at the uh trade shows, often I have a t-shirt

12:35   and if a conversation's really going sideways and they're making me feel like that, I'll slowly take the jacket off.

12:41   I'll slowly unbutton the shirt. And the t-shirt says, "My price is based on my value, not your budget." Oh, I like that.

12:50   It's [clears throat] based on value, not the budget.

12:53   I mean, I have to ask for what I have to ask for. I I unfortunately bring giant props and a 26 ft trailer and get

13:03   8 and 12 to 9 miles to the gallon pulling that thing down the road. So, when I'm asking for my price, I know how

13:10   much money it's going to cost me to get it there. I also know how much expense I have in each one of the props I do in my

13:17   show is. So, if you're comparing me as an illusionist who has 15 20,000 pieces of equipment that get me through four or

13:25   five minute segments of a show and I'm not the guy with the invisible deck.

13:30   We've all seen the invisible card deck that costs $10.

13:34   I have to ask for a certain amount of money because I have a certain amount of cost behind me. I also have a degree in theater. Doesn't really matter, but that

13:43   did cost me money where maybe if I just went right into the business. So, you know, we're all like kind of running a different race when it comes to that.

13:50   So, value to me means different than value to somebody else. Do I still try to have a fair price? I I do because I'm

13:58   trying to get more volume in shows rather than get a smaller amount of fairs at a higher price. I try and kind

14:06   of like help everybody, but it means I have to work more. And this is probably very personal. People don't need to know

14:14   this, but I'll tell you, I could add 50 60 days to my year worth of fair work.

14:21   And when I do my accounting at the end of the year, I made almost as much money as I did when I had 125 days worth of

14:28   fair work. So I have 125. Now I have 175. At the end of the year, it's still the same 70 to $80,000 on my IRS, you

14:37   know, when I'm doing my taxes. And I go, how does that happen? And then you start adding up the mileage, the time away from home, the hotels, the food, and you

14:46   go, there's got to be a number where you hit where you're not gone as much and you're making the same amount of money.

14:52   And for me, there is a calculation in there.

14:56   I think all of you entertainers would agree that uh many times the fair boards or the entertainment committees overlook

15:04   the fact that it's not just your day rate. What is included in that day rate?

15:09   the travel going from Ohio to Arkansas and back or um the gas, the tires you blew through moving that trailer, the

15:17   meals you have to have if you need a hotel room, the gas, the all the expenses and the experience of getting

15:25   your act there for 700 bucks a day or 1,200 bucks a day. Uh a lot of the people on the fair board that don't make that kind of money go, "Man, I wish I

15:33   could make 1,200 bucks a day flapping around my whatever. That seemed like really easy." There's an electrician, and I don't I don't want to give a name,

15:42   that has an electrician business. He does very well for himself. He's the boss. He employs other people, but he also is involved with the fair. And he

15:52   likes to tell you that. He'll tell you that at the convention. And I say, you know, the nice thing about you is is that you can stay home and you can make

16:01   the money. He's a gig worker the same as I am, just trying to fill days with with jobs, right? So, we have that in common.

16:09   The difference is is that he doesn't have to pay his bills back home and also pay the bills to be on the road. My wife and kids are still depending on daddy to

16:18   pay the mortgage and pay the the vehicle payments and the insurance and everything that we've got going at home plus my bills on the road. So, it seems

16:26   like a lot of money. And the other side of that that people don't think about with entertainment is there's only so many days a year that an entertainer can

16:34   work. So this fair is Friday through the following Saturday. So now I'm off Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday till

16:42   the next one starts. If it starts on Thursday, and if not, it starts on Friday. I've now lost 5 days of work

16:48   that I can't work a regular job. But if you want us to be around, we have to make a little bit of money to take care

16:56   of those five days while we're stuck waiting till the next event. And there's we have no choice. That's what we we chose to be entertainers. But there's

17:04   only certain amount of work that you can calculate into your year. Imagine if I could work 300 days a year. It would be

17:12   amazing. There's maybe 175 days worth of work I could possibly get with holes in between every week in the calendar. If

17:21   that makes sense to you as an illusionist. If you guys want us to work for you as fairs, you have to remember

17:29   our most the most valuable thing about us as entertainers is the fact that we are available to you. Because if we

17:36   start getting regular jobs at home and we start going away because we can make more money at home because we can make 350 days worth of work instead of 175.

17:49   That's when we all decide to start disappearing. And after co A lot of acts did figure that out and we did lose acts

17:57   in the industry that decided, you know, I can work for 250 days and yeah, it's less money, but I'm at home so I don't have all that other cost. There is a

18:06   there's a calculation in days there of work.

18:09   Well, well, sure. And you've got that that very important key. When you've got those four days off, you may spending all four of those days traveling to your

18:18   next event, arriving at 6:00 in the morning to get to the next show. So, uh, we appreciate that effort. I certainly

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19:31   pilotrock.com. [music] All right, we're back. Thanks, Pilot [music] Rockck. We appreciate you and your products. You got great stuff.

19:39   We're joining back here with Josh Knotts talking about entertainment. And Josh, I want to go back to something you mentioned a few minutes ago about the

19:47   value of what you do. Do you think some fair boards overlook the entertainment as an expense rather than an investment

19:55   in the overall experience of their fairgoers? What do you think they miss when they think that way?

20:02   Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I always say this is why it really matters that you look at your entertainment and

20:09   you watch the show because my personal opinion is I'm coming into your community for a week or two. You have to

20:18   live with the people who come to your fair the whole rest of the year. So technically, we're representing the decisions that you're making to the

20:26   people that you see at church on Sunday, grocery shopping every day of the week.

20:32   The people that you know, you know how it is in these towns. Everybody knows each other. You're either getting a pat on the back. Hey Eddie, love the show

20:40   this year. Great job with the fair. Or they're walking by you and they're not saying anything, which might tell you exactly what you need to know. I never

20:49   take lightly the fact that when I'm working at your fair, I'm representing the fair and the decisions that were made for that year.

20:57   Um, I think some acts, you know, most of the time when you see an act, you can tell by their real estate. What's the setup look like?

21:06   You can tell when you see good real estate with an act that they care. They want it to be special. They care about their own brand, but they care that it

21:15   looks good at the fair and on behalf of the fair. They're the ones that you never hear grumbling. They have to go out and do a show. They run out there

21:22   thrilled and excited to be able to do it. And unfortunately, we do have the opposite where we have acts that are here just for a money grab. Um, they

21:30   tend to weed themselves out. They go away. Um, the ones that really love it, it's like in our blood. I I love this

21:38   industry. I'm away from my my family a lot. They understand it. They know I love it. I'll do this industry as long as I possibly can.

21:48   Well, I know that the value that entertainment could bring to your fair doesn't stop at the fair gate. When I

21:55   was a fair manager, I would take like let's say the robo car guys. I'd get a sponsor from my local car dealer and I

22:03   would take those guys on a on a weekday while we're not open to that dealership and have all the sales guys take

22:11   pictures with them and they they love that publicity. If you get them out in the public, people see it and that helps

22:19   promote the fair like this is going on this week. I had a magician that did a uh what would you call it? a um an

22:27   anti-bullying program. And he he he on his own volunteered to call the local elementary schools and go do assemblies

22:36   throughout the week at those schools going, "Hey, this is great. No bullying, and by the way, come see me at the fair."

22:43   Brilliant. So, it's it's and I had many examples of that. Whenever you had an opportunity to get your entertainment, whatever you're putting on at your fair

22:52   out into the public, even if it's just standing on the street corner waving a sign in their weird costumes, right?

22:58   Yes, you can you can see that go every I think it's a really smart idea.

23:03   I will tell you every time I go into town, I talk to everybody. I mean, everybody. My my my theory is if you've

23:10   got a name tag, I'm going to use it. So immediately I start a conversation, but I promote the fair everywhere I go. Uh

23:18   whether it's at Walmart or, you know, if I'm going to get an oil change, I tell everybody why I'm in town and they need to get over to the fair to see my show.

23:25   You'll be surprised how many of those people come by and they say hello to you and when they make it to the fair.

23:30   So we should be ambassadors of the fair from the second we walk into the county.

23:34   Personally, um I I've got stories of guys like that, too. I mean, Lee Andrews will show up at Nursingham, seeing his clown outfit. He'll go over. I didn't

23:43   know he did this for years. He's done this at places and he'll go in or he'll go into like a children's hospital and he's doing it

23:51   because some of the people can't get to the fair and he brings a little bit of the fair to them and uh had no clue he was doing that until somebody from a

23:59   fair told me that. I said, "How long you been doing that?" He goes, "Oh, I've got my spots. I do that everywhere I go." It's just wonderful.

24:06   That brings so much value and goodwill towards the fair. when some people look at it sideways sometimes.

24:14   The um your strolling entertainers are perfect for that as well.

24:18   They travel light and they you know people overlook the strolling entertainment because they again they look at that $700 a day for a guy to

24:27   walk around on a on a a bouncy ball. I don't get it. Right. Well, you don't have to get it. The the people they

24:35   latch on to that kind of stuff. That's not something you see every day. I could tell you this that I've learned since I started the dragon situation. I got my dragon here behind me, Zuri.

24:46   Um, I think I hit more people strolling in 30 minutes than I do at my show in 30 minutes.

24:54   I'd believe it.

24:55   It's insane the amount of work a strolling act, how many people they get in front of in a 30 minute set. And if you're a strolling act, almost always

25:03   you see the phone go up and it's videos and it's photos.

25:07   Oh yeah. where at my show I have moments they do that. I'll see them but the whole crowd doesn't do that but every time I come AC across a group of people

25:16   the phones come out and so I just think what a great thing you're doing cuz if half the people let's say if a third of the people

25:23   posted those pictures or videos and somebody saw a dragon you think that's not helping promote to all the other moms and dads in the community

25:30   that are friends with them? It's such great advertising for the fair. Yeah, it's it's much more than just ambiance at your fair.

25:39   Yeah, it's great.

25:40   And the boards they I think they just overlook or they just don't realize what they have what they've what they brought to their fairgrounds and how to use it.

25:49   I've had I've had fairs too with the strolling that go, "Hey, listen. We're having a hard time. We got some vendors kind of down here and they're having a hard time getting a crowd down to them.

25:57   You think you can take that dragon down that way?

26:01   Well, you're paying me. We'll do whatever you tell us to do." and we do it and all of a sudden you're pulling people down that way and now the vendors

26:08   are getting a couple, you know, 30 to 45 minute pops worth of people there and they're making some money. So, you can use your strolling axe to fix little problems like that as well.

26:19   Yeah. And actually something I can't do as a stage guy.

26:22   No. Um, you're pretty much locked in on that. However, another thing that I used to do was if you get your entertainers

26:31   to send you some images or you have images from them when you had them at a fair previously,

26:38   stay away from all the AI posters. Stay away from all the AI posters. Use your entertainers on your printed media.

26:46   Yeah, I agree. Come see this guy.

26:48   I So, and I one time you I love Ron Weber, you know, he passed on. He was a dear friend of mine. But I'll never

26:56   forget I was doing a uh a session where I was on a panel and I gave the idea and I said, "I never understand at a fair or

27:04   whatever you go by and the billboard is the fair logo and the dates." Yeah.

27:08   Because I feel like that's a great reminder for people who already are going to come to your fair because of the tradition you built with them. Yeah.

27:15   But how do you get new people in? Well, if you have a hypnotist and you have people sleeping in chairs and the hypnotist up there and it says

27:23   hypnotizing nightly at the fair. If you have the sea lion splash and a picture with the sea lion, you go sea lions

27:30   daily at the fair. Now all of a sudden somebody who's never been to the fair is going to go, you know what, I've always wanted to see a hypnotist. I've always wanted to, you know, I love sea lions.

27:38   Whatever it is, and they come into the fair because of that billboard and seeing that, then they walk around, they go, why haven't I come to the fair

27:46   before? This is great. I love it. They fall in love with it. But it's like it seems to me like you should find a way to try and get new people in. It's I know it's important to remind all the

27:54   regular people when you're in town, the dates, whatnot, but I always thought that. So, I'm saying that in a session and Ron Weber comes up to me at the end.

28:02   He goes, "Hey, just so you know, as a marketing guy, it was a great idea, but why don't you let me take Why don't you let that be my idea? I'm [laughter] trying to get a paycheck.

28:12   Don't give it away." Right. Right. Right. Um Yeah. Going back to just a minute ago, we were talking about using

28:19   entertainment to to move people on the grounds. So, let's talk about using entertainment strategically.

28:26   How can a fair use a magician or another performer to actually move people around the fairgrounds rather than just simply

28:33   putting a performer on a stage and hope people show up?

28:37   Yeah. So, first of all, don't schedule us right when the gates open. That's right. One, right?

28:44   Okay. I always say give us an hour after the gates because people do kind of tend to come in and you know how it is. Think about if you go to any anywhere Disney,

28:52   Universal, you're kind of strolling along, your eyeballs are taking it all in. It takes you 30 40 minutes before

29:00   you kind of start heading in a direction. Oh yeah.

29:03   Uh you should be set up. That's a perfect time to advertise when your shows are coming up. But I say an hour

29:09   in's good. I feel like my job at a stage or on a ground somewhere is to advertise and make commerce in that general area.

29:19   So before my show for 30 minutes, I want to have time for at least 20 minutes uh leading into the show to advertise, hey,

29:27   this guy over here, Joe's got some great cotton candy and the funnel cake guys right over here and you could head over there for just $2 waters if you're

29:34   looking for something quick to drink. I promote every four minutes all the way up to my showtime everything that's in

29:41   my area to create commerce and most of the acts we do the we all do the same thing. We kind of realize our job is kind of to help the business be there.

29:51   So give us enough time in between shows that we can do the promotion. Also when my show ends and most fair shows we run

29:58   between 20 and 25 minutes on purpose. So when you're at a fair buyer and you come up and you go, I want 30 minutes. No,

30:06   you don't. Cuz now we've screwed up your schedule. If we go the full 30 now all of a sudden there's not time to walk across the grounds to the next show. So

30:16   here I'm lucky there's only a couple acts. We could literally have 30 minute show, 30 minutes off, 30 minute show, 30 minutes off. But some fairs you don't

30:25   have that. There's just so much going on you almost have to have a show every half hour. So, you have to give people

30:31   time to get from A to B and get food on the way. So, they're doing a little shopping.

30:38   I feel like my job like to move them.

30:42   People will sit with food in their lap for a show, right?

30:46   Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I used to like to schedule an act on one end and then

30:52   the next act is just a down a ways on another side of the fairgrounds to kind of get them to go back and forth to to

31:00   keep passing those vendors because they will stop and pick something up most likely along the way.

31:06   And be strategic about where you put them. Have one near the livestock area.

31:12   Maybe something that's not really loud and crazy, but have an attraction near the livestock. Have an attraction near your arts and crafts building. Have an

31:19   attraction near the front gate. Have an attraction near the midway so that you're moving people from area to area

31:26   around the fairgrounds. And there have been times when I've actually purposefully scheduled an act on top of another act because when it get near the

31:35   end of the night, say around that 8:00, 8:30 when younger families are twinkling about going home, they're like, "Well,

31:42   the sea lion shows going on, but the firefighter show, the kids really want to see that, too.

31:50   So, let's just let's go see this one, and then we'll stay another 30 minutes and go see that one." That's a smart move to keep them on the

31:58   grounds longer. I have worked for fairs, too, where they do Mark St. Jock's a great example of this up at Washington County, New York. I used to work for

32:05   him. He had a lot of entertainment at a fair, but he's in an area that doesn't have a ton of population. But that's a fair where people come three or four

32:13   days out of the six. you see the same people because he over overlapped his entertainment on purpose so that you would come one day and be able to do one

32:22   route and not see all the shows and then the next time you came you could see the other shows.

32:28   Then the third time they came in they went to the shows they liked again. So by the end of the week, my goal was to see the faces again because I went,

32:36   "Wow, they picked me." You know, they might have happened upon me because I was on the schedule, but the third time that they came into the fair, they wanted to come back to my show. So I was

32:45   always trying to get that the seats filled with people who wanted to come back and that was one of the fairs where I could figure that out.

32:53   No, that and that's important. Uh moving the people from one section to the next.

32:58   Um, when you have a fair like one of the fairs I worked at was it was very linear. So I I would schedule them to go

33:07   just from one to the next. One right after the other so they could get all three in before they got to the midway. Yeah.

33:14   Just boom boom boom boom. Now you've seen it. Now you can go into the buildings and see what's inside because you're not going to miss anything.

33:22   Yeah. So that way it's brilliant.

33:25   um entertainment used to bring people into areas of the fair that normally are

33:31   overlooked. Um what do they miss and can you give us an example of how you've seen that work?

33:42   So we're talking like the livestock area.

33:46   I was say we're talking a lot about getting people to go into the commercial exhibitors building.

33:50   That's always a common problem. Like what's the solution to that? Right. I've been in the building as an act

33:58   and I've I've been in the building and it was a draw because they did advertise outside well that I was in there. And I've also been at the ones where I had

34:07   nobody at my shows for 7 days. Um because they didn't do any advertising outside of the building to get them to

34:14   know the show was in there. So to some acts when we get sat inside of a of a building, we're like, "Oh no, they're not going to walk by me and stop. I'm not going to get the pile up, you know.

34:26   So, it's like, did you advertise? Well, I've went before and bought a bunch of sandwich wedges, uh, sign boards, and,

34:34   uh, I've literally spent hundreds of dollars putting my signs all over outside after a couple days worth of not getting a crowd in a building to me. And

34:42   it did help. It did help. It picked it up. And then all of a sudden, the whole building picked up. Sometimes, is that a problem? You know how it is in a

34:50   commercial vendor's building. to get the church group that's over there saving souls to understand that you've got to turn your music up a little bit to get the crowd in.

34:59   Now all of a sudden you're you're butdding heads a little bit. It's like listen, I'm just trying to get them in the building and then I want you to save their souls. Like I I really do, but I

35:07   have to do my thing to get them in here, you know?

35:11   Yes. So I had a uh an agricultural education building. That's not always the most exciting seeing plants and vegetables.

35:20   So, I would put like Nature Nick, who's the bird and exotic animal guy, in

35:27   there. I've brought in a robot battle team to get them in there. You know, dozens.

35:33   We had 70 teams from six states show up and they love being at the fairgrounds because when they're not fighting their

35:40   robots, they're out on the fair spending money. Whenever you can get large groups of people, whether it's baton twirlers

35:47   or anybody to fill those stages, all those groups, and we'll come back to that because it's that's an awesome thing is is getting large crowds because

35:55   they'll bring their moms and their grandparents and all the kids with them to see little Sally do tap dance, right?

36:02   So, in the building, you have put them in there because it's brilliant, but you must must must put giant signs out

36:11   there. You have to use your social media to tease it constantly that this cool thing is in that building and you have

36:19   to go in to see it. You just you can't miss it.

36:23   Um but you have to advertise it like you said it. You have to do that or it it'll get lost.

36:29   Um, speaking about getting lost, our Pilot Rock sponsor uh has people that are always looking for somewhere to sit

36:36   with picnic tables and picnic benches and park benches that aren't going to rot and fall apart. Right, Mike? Let's go to announcer Mike. Mike, you got something to say about that?

36:45   Wooden [music] picnic tables rot. Trash cans are easily knocked or blown [music] over. Y and maintenance guys don't like that.

36:53   No, they do not.

36:54   All right. Do you have a campground for your vendors? I mean, maybe they could use a fire ring or a grill at [music] the site.

37:01   Yep. We don't need them to burn the fairgrounds down, though, do we?

37:04   Okay. So, you can check out Pilot Rock products now. [music] Heavyduty products. They're built for the demands of busy fairgrounds and campgrounds.

37:13   Pilot Rock has lots of [music] designs, and many can be customized to add sponsors, memorials, or your fair [music] name. What do you think? Should they check them out?

37:22   Check them out at pilotrock.com.

37:24   That's pilotrock.com. All right, we're back with Josh Knotts from Extreme Escapes.

37:30   It's a really cool show. If you're not using Josh, you might want to call him up uh because he's he's brilliant. Um

37:36   Josh, let's get back to this. What makes an entertainment act successful at a county fair? Is it the performer, the

37:44   location, the timing, the promotion, interaction with the crowd, or some combination of all of those things?

37:51   Well, it's definitely the combination of all those things. Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.

37:57   It's all those things. Yeah. Do I feel like the interaction is the most important? Yeah. Because I mean to be selfish, my whole show is getting people

38:05   to come up and experience the illusions and escapes and be part of it and make the moment. So I lean on that a little more. I like to um try and stay at the

38:14   stage afterwards and interact with people and talk and do little goofy tricks with the kids and stuff as they come up.

38:21   You let them take pictures up there, too, don't you? whatever they want.

38:24   Yeah. I'll get up there and hold open the jaws of death and have them stand inside so they can be actually inside of it. And we're get that. Again, all that

38:33   stuff is for the fair and it's to make the moment, but also I'm trying to create something with my brand. So, I want people to have that warm fuzzy when

38:41   they think about me and my show. The only way you're going to get that is to have a little one-on-one with people, you know? Well, you know what that you

38:50   were talk you're talking about that you're talking about plugging your vendors around you. You're talking about going out and engaging with the community.

39:01   These are things being a good neighbor.

39:02   Being a good neighbor. These are things that your fair board probably has no idea that you're doing. They just think that they've hired you at the

39:11   convention. [snorts] Excuse me. They hired you at the convention and you're just going to do your show for 20 minutes and take six hours off till the next show.

39:22   Yeah.

39:22   They have no idea what entertainers do in the meantime if they don't visit them, talk with them, be friendly with them.

39:32   Yeah. You're you're on the whole time.

39:34   Like I don't I'm not the entertainer that hides and and then there are some entertainers that they maybe their show is very physically demanding and they

39:42   just need to go for 30 minutes and just I got to sit I got to have a coffee. I got to drink a Gatorade. Whatever. I'm not that. I I like to stand out there

39:50   and chitchat with people uh all day long. My wife would always say, "You're the guy that nobody wants to sit next to on an airplane [laughter]

39:58   cuz I'm going to by the time that we land, you we now have these people are exhausted, but we know everything about

40:06   each other. I'm that guy." Well, I think that most entertainers like you enjoy what you do because hey, you do it for a living.

40:16   Yeah. So, if you're a board member, entertainment committee, go talk with your entertainers and ask them if they would do some of these

40:24   things for you. I'm sure they would do that because this is what they love to do.

40:29   And, you know, I'm a Christian and so I always put myself in that whole thought process of when I'm out here, the idea

40:36   for me is that I'm supposed to be bringing joy. My job period ac whatever I do out there whether it's talking to

40:44   people or doing my show or after my show I'm to provide joy period. They're in here to have a good time to forget about everything that's going on in the world

40:53   and politics and the worry about the bills and so give them a true escape.

40:58   Provide them with some joy. Make some memories.

41:02   Happy happy joy joy. Happy idea. Joy joy. And so I've had a pretty great job because I've got to see people happy my whole life.

41:11   Speaking of happy, what makes a kid happier than performing at the fair?

41:15   Going back to that concept, there are [clears throat] lots of groups in your community that would love love

41:23   love to perform at the fair. And guess what? They do it for free.

41:28   Yeah. Yeah. All you got to do is let one parent in the gate or something, you know, make a deal with them. Sell them the rest of the tickets because they're going to buy tickets. They're going to buy rides. They're going to buy food.

41:39   They're going to make a day of it.

41:40   They're not just going for the 15, 20 minutes you gave them on stage. You've got uh things that I've used in the

41:47   past. Taekwond do demonstrations, your local Civil War or World War II reenactment group, the Renaissance

41:56   Festival people. um baton twirlers, dance groups, dance, some of these dance studios have like 150 kids.

42:05   Yeah.

42:05   And they will bring them all and it will eat up 45 minutes of your stage time.

42:10   But we don't even have a stage. They say sometimes like Hey, if you don't have a stage, you know, you know what's a perfect thing for your fair then?

42:18   They don't even have to the marching band. Oh, yeah.

42:21   Marching bands are used to being outside. They don't need sound systems.

42:25   They literally provide that on a football field without a sound system.

42:29   That's right. I was a band kid and we got to go perform at our local um fair every year. We would do a show and

42:36   we didn't march. We literally just got together and played our halftime show or whatever our marching show would be. We stood and played it. Um there was you

42:45   you don't have to have a parade just because you have a marching band is my point. No, just set them up and let them play.

42:51   and and all the all the local amusement parks to markets, they all have their fantasy parades. And I remember

42:59   Kennywood amusement park because I live near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Every town had their day and the band walked

43:05   through and all of us got in free and our parents did not get in for free. Correct.

43:12   And they all paid to come in. So, it's a really brilliant idea for the fair to do it. Um, and there's a good example of

43:20   somebody or an idea where you can get 150 kids to come in and perform and you don't have to pay an AB guy, a sound

43:28   guy, and you're going to get all the grandparents and parents to come out to the fair and watch them do their show.

43:34   Right. And for those parents that complain that they're not getting in free to see their daughter perform, ask them this. Excuse me, ma'am.

43:43   How much do you got to pay to watch your daughter play volleyball at school? $5, $10.

43:49   You can't do anything for free. Why should we When we did our annual band concert in the theater, it was a $5 to get in.

43:58   And all the money, of course, they knew it was going right back into the band situation to help pay for whatever that we were all taking advantage of. Uh it's

44:06   the same way when you go to the fair, that's your fair. You shouldn't mind spending the money on that tradition to be around.

44:15   I'm the guy that when I walk into Disney and it's $170 for the day, you can look at that and go, that's $170. But for me,

44:22   I go, I hope this is around for my kids kids, so I don't mind spending the money once or twice a year. Yes.

44:29   You know, so I think like that. I don't know if everybody does because the rest of the fair has value. Yeah.

44:37   Don't be afraid to charge to get in your fair.

44:41   That's a whole another podcast about fairs let free every night or whatever.

44:45   It's like then they complain that they don't have enough money to to make the stage better or add a new building. It's like well if you charge people to come

44:53   in maybe you could do something about that.

44:55   I think most of the community they they want they want to help. They they they love the events there and they don't mind giving some money to the event.

45:02   They do. And speaking of stages, I'm a professional musician. I've played at fairs. Please, for the love of God, fair

45:10   people, I know you're not professional sound production companies, but you hire a sound company many times. And even if

45:16   you don't, please make sure that the entertainers, no matter what they are,

45:22   excuse me, have proper infrastructure, enough power to plug in. I've been to a

45:30   fair where like the first note pop, fuses [laughter] were done. Like, what do you mean? how we overloading the circuit. They didn't have enough power.

45:39   Make sure you have it convenient to plug in. If you have any lighting, if you have a stage that doesn't leak, even if

45:47   you don't have a stage, can you put some carpet down or something just to keep it out of the the dust and everything that blows around through there? Maybe some

45:55   fans. Uh any of the places you have entertainment, they're bringing their own trailers full of stuff. Yes. But

46:03   make sure that the grass is cut, make sure that the rocks are raked and whatever else you're doing for them because that's important.

46:10   Yes, sir. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, we Well, it's our job to make your area look good, but um we we still need what

46:18   we need, you know. Um I I'm always here a couple days early so that I can actually a day or two out. I set up as

46:26   soon as I can and I'll put all the speakers on. I'll have the compressor running at the same time and all the stage lights on just to see if I'm

46:34   getting the power. But I can't tell you how many people come in and it's not their fault. They have to come in last minute and it happens during the first

46:42   show that they find out what the problems are.

46:44   Well, that's when also everyone else on the grounds is having the problem. So, the poor electrician's running his butt off, you know.

46:50   Oh, yeah. We we feel for the electricians.

46:53   Yes, we do. We love the electrician. And please don't forget to be a good host as a board member to keep in mind when

47:01   you're hiring those entertainers. Don't forget to ask, "Do you sleep in a trailer or the hotel?" Because when they get there in a trailer and they go,

47:09   "Where's the water?" Oh, we don't have any water back here. Well, that's uh Okay, great.

47:17   Yeah, it's wild. Things like that. It's wild, but it it totally happens.

47:22   It does. So Josh, if you were sitting down with a fair board that was planning next year's entertainment schedule, what would you tell them about getting

47:30   the most value out of their entertainers?

47:34   Yeah. Um, first of all, a theme goes a long way.

47:39   I love when a fair is coming up with a theme. Um, there's plenty of entertainment that you can build into a theme. Like the South Florida Fair this

47:48   year is doing something that's like mythical fantasy. Oh, cool.

47:53   I knew about it a couple years ago even though they were keeping it under wraps because they wanted to make sure that the dragons were going to be held for their dates.

48:01   Makes sense.

48:02   So, you gota that helps because you can immediately go after the acts in the industry that you can build a theme around. And we have a ton of

48:09   agricultural themed people anyway that do things. But like this year with the 250th, how many people had the red,

48:16   white, and blue, the circuses, the mirror men, you know, we knew who was going to be working this year. You know,

48:25   um, anything Americana was going to get it. I I'm a illusion and escape show. I very well know that sometimes I'm not fitting this year's theme.

48:35   So my conversation with people when they come up to the booth is, you know what I do? I want to be at your event. When it

48:43   works for you, of course, I want to be there. But if the the whole idea this year is that we're going pink, a black

48:51   and yellow with big giant metal looking gadgets that look like something out of a Saw movie might not be what's going to fit your event, you know, unless it's a Halloween event.

49:02   Yeah, I work a lot in October.

49:05   [laughter]

49:07   All right. Well, finally today, uh Josh, if you could change one thing about the way fairboards and entertainers kind of work together, what would you change and why?

49:20   Yeah. How do you work together?

49:22   Yeah. Don't be afraid to to hit us. I feel like sometimes I don't hear from a fair. I hear from them when we're initially working on the contract and getting the details in writing.

49:33   Mhm.

49:33   And then what'll happen is it'll be 3 weeks out and panic. They need everything. They need everything. So, I

49:40   don't know. It's don't feel free in between those months. You are never bothering anybody that you're giving a paycheck to. Please lean on us. I need

49:50   you to give me a social media video. I need you to have it say, "Hey, I'm coming to the fair in 2 months and I'm going to be doing Illusions and

49:58   Escapes." Whatever it is. Um, be good about asking because if your entertainers are going to make you feel like a bother, then you need to find

50:06   different entertainers. You're not a bother. We get to do what we love for a living cuz you're giving us that opportunity to do it.

50:13   We should be doing whatever we can to make sure that your event succeeds.

50:18   So, I would say communication, communication, communication.

50:21   That's right. How about questions? We will answer them honestly and if we don't know, we'll tell you we don't know. If there's an idea from

50:30   another fair that we can steal and pass it off as our own, we're going to do that. [laughter] You know, it's the game. When it comes

50:39   to the communication, do you find any fairs that I mean, ideally you have one person to work through. Do you find when

50:48   you get interactions and communications for two or three different people on a committee, it just gets confusing?

50:54   It sometimes it does. Yeah. Yeah. What happens normally in that case is you get passed off. If there's a good handover, then you understand it.

51:04   When all of a sudden I just have like I got in a little bit of an argument cuz a lady was writing to me for my dragons and she's a hired social media company.

51:14   Well, she didn't tell me that. She was trying to make it as if she was the fair. So now I can talk to her in a different way than the fair because now

51:22   I know what she really needs. But she was like she was trying to hide that.

51:26   I'm like, "Well, what? Like what are you with the fair?" Like there's so much confusion right now. Like finally after

51:33   back and forth and a lot of emails where she felt like I just wasn't giving her what she wanted, she explained to me what she needed and then of course it was to her within 30 minutes.

51:44   Uh that does happen. Sure.

51:45   Yeah. Too many was it? Too many uh chiefs, not enough Indians.

51:50   That's right. Too many chefs in the kitchen. Yeah. Yeah. That whole concept. It's hard to stay on message.

51:57   Usually we're working with the fair manager for contracting and then that fair manager can feel free to call us at any time when it comes to logistics or whatever. But sometimes I've the electrician needs to ask me a question.

52:08   Sometimes the social media person needs to ask me a question.

52:12   uh they need me to call in and do an interview with a newspaper or hey when you're in town can you do a radio thing

52:19   really quickly an event could be 10 different people talking to us and you have to understand I'm here right now at Wayne Regional Fair but I'm already

52:27   talking to people for press and stuff for Jacksonville 3 and 1/2 weeks from now so it piles up I mean our weeks are

52:36   not just sitting in a camper you know we're kind of hustling for the next event as well, getting them all the

52:43   things that they need. Um, Kayla Collie's been hitting me up needing some stuff for the South Florida Fair recently. So, things start to pile up

52:52   and, you know, um, I think it's all about the communication, just keeping it moving.

52:59   Communication, respect, kindness, and, you know, care about your entertainers because they are your guests for the week. Yeah.

53:09   Right. And and I and I'd say too what I've run into this year being as busy as I am is to understand that a lot of us

53:17   that are on the road, we may not have the best internet. We may be somewhere where our cell signal that's our hot spot is horrible.

53:25   Mhm.

53:26   So like also be understanding when we say, "Hey, listen. I'm in a horrible spot. In 4 days, I'm going to be out of here.

53:35   Is it is this emergent right now? cuz I'll go into town and I'll try and find McDonald's Wi-Fi, whatever. Can it wait

53:43   till I get to the Monday at the next place? That's happened to me twice this year that it seemed like everybody needed something when I was in an AT&T

53:51   dead spot and I have AT&T, you know, and it was like horrible. I'm asking my wife back home to do whatever she could do, so she's trying to help

54:00   me, you know, so like just be understanding that we're working everywhere all the time. Um, if we ever

54:07   aren't getting back to you, um, just know that it's not personal. Sometimes it's just bad, uh, you know, uh, bandwidth.

54:17   Yes. So, bandwidth between the entertainers and the fair board, please keep in mind that it's a relationship.

54:27   Don't treat them like the help. Make them feel welcome. They'll do a great job for you. Your fair is going to love it. Your guests are going to love it.

54:34   and you're going to keep moving on and pressing on, moving on, moving on. So, with that, I want to say thank you, Josh, today for your time. You're doing

54:43   a great job out there. We we love you and we will see you guys next time on the Fair Grounds Podcast.

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